When someone mentions “counterinsurgency” a handful of names come to mind. First among them is John Nagl. West Point graduate. Rhodes Scholar. Author of Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife. Driving force behind the counterinsurgency revolution and co-author of Army Field Manual 3–24.Think tank president. Naval Academy professor. School Headmaster. A man for all seasons.
I consider myself fortunate to call John Nagl a friend. When then-Lieutenant General David Petraeus tapped John to co-author the Army’s new counterinsurgency doctrine, I was in the midst of reintroducing operational art to our capstone doctrine. We were both Gulf War veterans, had both served in Iraq, and both knew the Army needed an intellectual renaissance to redefine how we waged modern war. When John retired in 2008, there was never a doubt that his influence would only increase once he took off the uniform.
Six years after hanging up his spurs and Stetson, John Nagl is back with a vengeance. His new book, Knife Fights: A Memoir of Modern War in Theory and Practice, has already made an immediate and resounding impact. His insightful wisdom and biting intellect are a welcome respite from the kind of thinking that has us back in Iraq for the third time in three decades. This is John Nagl at his best, from the serene grounds of West Point to the bloody streets of Anbar Province. Warrior, scholar, leader. A man for all seasons.
1. “Knife Fights” is on bookshelves now. What’s the gouge?
When my tank battalion task force arrived in al Anbar province in September 2003, we were completely unprepared to fight a counterinsurgency campaign there — as was the larger Army of which we were a small part. Knife Fights tells the story of why the Army was so unprepared for the wars it had to fight in the 21st century, and how it learned and adapted to become capable across the entire spectrum of warfare.
2. What made you decide to write the book?
Task Force Centurion lost 23 soldiers during our year in al Anbar. In their memory, I wrote Knife Fights. The book is my attempt to prevent the United States from fighting unnecessary wars like the invasion of Iraq in 2003, to ensure that we fight only when we have vital national interests at stake — and that when we do fight, we know how to win at any level of warfare, from insurgency to conventional combat.
3. How do you balance writing with your other priorities? Where do you find the time?
I do my best writing early in the morning, before the rest of the house is awake. You can take the man out of the Army, but you can’t take the Army out of the man. One of the many gifts the Army has given me is the ability to wake up early and get more done before 9 AM than most people do all day!
4. There are a lot of so-called experts that say counterinsurgency is dead. How have you adjusted to these critics?
Counterinsurgency can’t be dead as long as insurgency is alive and well — and it is, and is likely to be for some time. The United States is currently assisting insurgencies and counterinsurgents all over the globe, including most pressingly conducting counterinsurgency in conjunction with the Iraqi Army in al Anbar and fomenting a Free Syrian Army insurgency against President Assad in Syria. It’s the golden age of insurgency and counterinsurgency.
5. It’s “Back to the Future” time in Iraq. What should our game plan be?
Defeating the Islamic State in Iraq is actually not very difficult; we should dramatically increase the number of combat advisors we have supporting the Iraqi Army and allow them to embed inside Iraqi battalions. With the enablers they bring, including immediate access to intelligence assets and airpower, they’ll make short work of ISIS. Syria is another matter entirely, unfortunately.
6. Any nostalgia for the cradle of civilization?
Lots of nostalgia for the soldiers we lost there. Enormous anger, sadness, and bitterness that my Iraqi and American friends are going to have to fight yet again to secure Anbar from Islamist militants in a war that was both entirely predictable and entirely preventable, simply by continuing to station advisors in Iraq after the last campaign there ended.
7. Regionally-Aligned Forces or an Advisor Corps? What’s the best path to the future?
Regionally Aligned Forces are a poor man’s Advisor Corps, but they’re better than nothing. I continue to find it astounding that the Army is so resistant to the idea that, even as it maintains the ability to defeat any ground force on the planet in conventional combat, an increasing part of its responsibility to the nation will be advising our friends and allies around the globe to defeat insurgencies. I guess I’m not very persuasive.
8. Have we learned enough to save Afghanistan from imploding? Does it really matter?
Saving Afghanistan is relatively easy. We need to station some 20,000 advisors there, supported by air power and intelligence and logistics assets, to put spine in the Afghan forces and help keep the Taliban at bay. If we choose not to do that — and our current plan is to go to zero in Afghanistan at the end of 2016, just as we went to zero in Iraq at the end of 2011 — the next President will be sending troops back into Afghanistan, just as this one is sending troops back into Iraq. Afghanistan matters, especially as a platform to keep influence on and an eye into Pakistan, still the most dangerous country in the world for the United States.
9. You’ve done The Daily Show. How do you top that?
After The Daily Show, nothing else in life has meaning. It’s a rapid descent into oblivion.
10. From think tank boy genius to school headmaster. What made you make the jump?
Leaving aside your characterization of my role at CNAS, there was an interim step; I stepped down from the Presidency of CNAS to become the inaugural Minerva Professor at the US Naval Academy, and it was from there that I made the move to The Haverford School. Both decisions were driven by a desire to spend more time with my family, especially with the now-thirteen year old son who is growing up fast — and was growing up without me playing a significant role in his life. Now I have time to take him to skateparks, which is where we are now!
11. What has been your proudest moment at Haverford?
The Haverford School graduated a number of young men who fell in combat in World War I, World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, but for whatever reason, memorial tablets created in their honor were kept in the school archives before my arrival. Last Memorial Day, we dedicated The Haverford School Wall of Honor to keep alive their memory and, I hope, to inspire this new generation of Americans to understand history and leadership and sacrifice.
12. Are the rumors true that the students call you ‘Dean Wormer’?
Not to my face! It’s always “Doc”, which makes me laugh. As in, “What’s up, Doc?”
13. You’ve had the opportunity to offer advice to an eclectic group of senior leaders. Who stands out to you as the best wartime commander of our generation?
I’ll cheat and pick three: David Petraeus, who had the intellect and will to change the way the Army thought about war, and then change the course of the war in Iraq, and the dedication to accept the call to serve again in Afghanistan. Jim Mattis, the most inspirational combat leader I’ve ever served. And Stan McChrystal, who developed JSOC into an industrial-scale killing machine that has removed more enemies of our nation from the planet than anyone. The nation is fortunate that men of this caliber were willing to serve when we needed them.
14. What makes John Nagl laugh?
I share the Headmaster’s House with a Jack Russell named Sparky and a black Lab named Maggie. Sparky’s favorite chew toy is Maggie’s back leg, and Maggie has developed a sit move to protect her hindquarters. Every morning there’s a dog wrestling match in my kitchen, and every morning it makes me laugh.
15. What motivates you?
I feel very fortunate to have been given good health, a great education, and a chance to serve a nation I love very much. My favorite parable is the Parable of the Talents, and my most basic belief is that much is expected of those to whom much has been given. I try hard to use my life to serve others by helping our nation make good decisions about the use of force in international politics, and to educate the next generation of leaders we so desperately need.
16. Tell me about the last book you read.
I’m currently reading my friend Yochi Dreazen’s wonderful book The Invisible Front. It tells the story of Kevin Graham, an ROTC Cadet at the University of Kentucky who struggled with depression and killed himself, and his brother Jeff, a lieutenant in Task Force 1–34 Armor who was killed by an Improvised Explosive Device in Khalidiyah, Iraq on February 7, 2004. I responded to the attack on Jeff’s platoon and wrote “Ghost Stories”, the poem that opens Knife Fights, partly in memory of that horrible day.
17. Who would play John Nagl in a movie? If you say ‘Liam Neeson’ I’ll tell people you wear Spider-Man underoos.
Who told you I wear underoos? If Knife Fights is made into a movie, I’d hold out for Johnny Depp to play me; I think he has the right combination of devil-may-care insouciance and acting ability. And he could introduce me to Keith Richards!
18. iPad, Kindle, or old-fashioned book?
I love my iPad for searching the web, but I’m reading Yochi’s book using time-tested ink on dead tree technology. I like writing in my books and returning to those thoughts later, and I’m not confident that any electronic medium I purchase today will still be accessible a decade from now. Dead tree books will.
19. You’ve been selected for an interstellar voyage to search for life in other galaxies, and you get to select a co-pilot from your former cronies at the Center for a New American Security. Who do you take and why?
Nate Fick was my business partner, inspiration, and friend during the three years I served as President and he as CEO of CNAS. Combat leadership in two wars, an MBA and MPA from Harvard, and a NYT Bestseller before he was thirty, Nate is the real deal, one of the best leaders of his generation. I’d be happy to wash his socks on a mission to Mars.
20. What’s next for you?
I promised my Board of Trustees at The Haverford School that I’d serve as their ninth Headmaster at least until 2020, when my son is scheduled to graduate from the School. I may stay longer; I love teaching, I like leading institutions, and I believe in the mission of this school: “Preparing Boys for Life”. But I’ve never really had a long-term plan; I’ve been fortunate to have had a series of life adventures, and I’m interested to see what happens next.
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